Listen to the episode: https://player.cohostpodcasting.com/c349bddc-9362-4dde-88ac-8756a696798e/a04eb149-2793-4577-8b50-24c93a607fee
What happens when data challenges something you deeply believe — something that has shaped your identity, your work, and your moral compass? In this episode of The Space In Between, Leigh sits down with Alice Shobe for a powerful conversation about feminism, boys and men, blind spots, and what it takes to expand our frame without abandoning our convictions.
Alice has spent her life pushing into spaces that were not designed for women and building pathways of opportunity for people too often left out. But when she read Richard Reeves’ Of Boys and Men, she found herself confronted by data she could not ignore: boys falling behind in education, men dying by suicide at alarming rates, and men drifting away from many of the caregiving and service professions society urgently needs. Rather than see this as a threat to her commitment to women’s equality, Alice began asking a harder question: what am I not seeing?
Episode Overview
In this conversation, Leigh and Alice explore what it means to hold two truths at once: that women and girls still face real barriers to equality and opportunity, and that boys and men are also struggling in ways that deserve serious, compassionate, evidence-based attention.
Alice shares how her own story — from being the only girl on an all-boys hockey team after Title IX, to growing up as a fraternal twin with a brother, to leading in corporate and nonprofit spaces — shaped her commitment to opportunity. She also reflects on what it was like to raise the topic of boys and men inside women-centered spaces, where the reaction was often mixed, protective, and deeply human.
A few themes we explore:
- Alice’s op-ed for the Puget Sound Business Journal Leadership “Expert Confronts Blind Spot After Decades Championing Women’s Opportunity”
- How new data can reveal blind spots without requiring us to abandon our values
- Why personal story can open conversations that data alone cannot
- What it means to be willing to be misunderstood in service of a larger truth
- How “yes, and” can help us stay curious in moments of discomfort or disagreement
Main Discussion Points
1. Expanding the frame without abandoning conviction
Alice talks about how her commitment to women’s equality did not disappear when she began paying attention to the struggles of boys and men. Instead, her frame widened.
2. What the data reveals about boys and men
Leigh and Alice discuss Richard Reeves’ research on education, suicide, workforce participation, male teachers, and the need for more men in healthcare, education, and caregiving roles.
3. The emotional complexity of being misunderstood
Alice reflects on what it felt like to advocate for boys and men while remaining deeply committed to women’s opportunity — and how she navigated questions from friends, colleagues, and women-centered spaces.
4. Practicing “yes, and” in a polarized world
Drawing from improv training, Alice offers “yes, and” as a practical way to pause, stay open, and build a bridge when our first instinct may be skepticism or defensiveness.
Why This Conversation Matters
We live in a time when many public conversations push us into either/or thinking: either you care about women or you care about men, either you stay loyal to your cause or you are betraying it. Alice’s story offers a different path. She reminds us that conviction can expand, that curiosity can strengthen rather than weaken our values, and that asking “what am I not seeing?” may be one of the most important leadership practices of our time.
About Alice Shobe
Alice Shobe is a respected leader whose career has focused on expanding opportunity, strengthening communities, and addressing inequities across the corporate, nonprofit, housing, homelessness, philanthropy, and workforce development sectors. She has held senior leadership roles at Amazon and in the nonprofit sector, serves on the board of Jobs for the Future, and is a founding board member of the American Institute for Boys and Men. A longtime advocate for women’s equality and opportunity, Alice brings to this conversation a rare combination of moral clarity, humility, curiosity, and practical leadership as she explores what it means to hold multiple truths at once.
Resources Mentioned in the Podcast
- Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do About It by Richard Reeves
- American Institute for Boys and Men
- Jobs for the Future
- Alice Shobe’s op-ed in the Puget Sound Business Journal
Closing Reflection
What are we not seeing right now?
That question sits at the center of this episode — not as an accusation, but as an invitation to stay awake, stay curious, and keep widening the circle of who and what we are willing to see.
